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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 9:08 pm 
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BDG

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EDIT 12/24/06: I have edited the tutorial instructions below and added a new landing video clip. The instructions have been edited slightly to reflect the better Spit landing performance ever since it was improved with the 2.04 patch.

Later in the thread are references to downloadable .cam files. Sorry but the links to them are long since dead.
END EDIT 12/24/06
****************

LINKS TO NEW LANDING VIDEO CLIPS:

Original clip at YouTube:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Dzruy5qe3V4

Newer version (Sept. 2007) of a landing and takeoff clip (the first link may be higher quality video):

http://www.esnips.com/doc/30f83fe0-3786 ... nding-BoB2

or here:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=QB52IvAMadk



If you are an experienced flight-sim pilot the following may be overly basic but to new pilots it might be useful.


BoB II does a fantastic job of modeling landing the Spitfire, amongst the most realistic of any combat flight simulator. BoB2 also has perhaps the greatest force feedback effects of any flight sim I have flown. With a good force feedback joystick and/or Buttkicker Gamer (I highly recommended both as they are awesome) providing tactile feedback of wind buffet, drag, approaching stall and touchdown; along with excellent engine and open/closed cockpit ambient sounds the overall effect is superb. It is still a little more challenging (realistic IMO) to land in BoB2 than in most other sims but Trust me, with practice and patience it can be done and done well consistently.

The following is based on my own experience landing the Spitfire in BoB II. It is supplemented by reading published data on the Spitfire, and an excellent account of actually landing a real Spitfire by AJ (Andy) Sephton. Andy was a Test Pilot for Rolls Royce, Bristol 1989-96 and Display Pilot for the Shuttleworth Trust, 1992-96. His account is published in the book Spitfire - Flying Legend - The Fighter and The Few by authors John Dibbs and Tony Holmes.

I rarely have tried to land any of the German planes. Other than slight differences in the required speeds, the general concepts below should be similar for landing the Hurricane and perhaps Jerry's planes.

The video and this tutorial were done with all flight model and engine management settings on maximum realistic.

I hope this is helpful to some.

SPITFIRE – A LANDING TUTORIAL:

Descent, Final Approach and Touchdown at the properly slow speeds are critical to successful landing. Note: There is a danger of “over correcting”at slower speeds. At slower speeds, there is a slow response of the aircraft to control surface input(s) since th wind flowing over them is so much slower. As a result, less experienced pilots tend to “over-correct”, then upon realizing the error(s) they once again over-correct in order to “fix” them – thus starts a cycle of errors resulting in a poor landing or crash.

Abort the landing and go around if needed. If your airspeed or glide slope are wrong and you are going to overshoot the runway or land short do not hesitate to abort, go around and try it again. It is better to get down safely and fly and fight another day than crash land because you rushed and botched it.

Locate the airfield: It can be difficult to distinguish the airfield from the surrounding fields at a distance or from altitude. Request a vector to the airfield by calling the tower ground control - key strokes: R, 5, 3 (you can also try R-3-1 which is the Mayday call for the nearest airfield - works the same). The tower will respond giving you a vector and range to the field. As the tower ground control is completing its transmission, press F5 – this will padlock the airfield with a red diamond over the field. You can also request from the tower the wind speed and direction, as well as permission to land, etc: Press R, 5 and the corresponding # for the information you need.

On the open grass airfields where there is ample room to land from almost any direction, if you are unfamiliar with the airfield make a pass over it before starting the active landing phase in order to observe any obstructions on the field for your planned landing and adjust your approach heading accordingly.

The descent and slowing the aircraft: The Spitfire is very aerodynamic and will glide for a sustained basis, losing little airspeed in level flight or a shallow descent, even with the throttle chopped. This makes it somewhat difficult to slow down sufficiently for a safe approach and landing. To slow the aircraft, retard throttle and set prop pitch to maximum fine pitch (prop lever all the way forward). Initially after doing this, the RPM’s and engine sound may increase and you may think you are accelerating. However, the large prop and mass of the now idling engine acting as a brake on it will combine to resist the wind and thus start to slow the aircraft down. As your airspeed decreases you will notice the engine sound and RPMs begin to drop. In addition to maximum fine prop pitch, make a series of sharp level or shallow descent S-turns in order to further slow the plane and reduce altitude. Try to descend at around 140 mph or less.

Final Approach, landing gear and flaps: When you are within roughly 2 miles of the airfield you should try to have airspeed at or below 120 m.p.h. with altitude about 1,000 to 1,300 feet. I now set the UP trim indicator one notch above center so I am trimmed slightly nose up. Open the cockpit if you wish. Try to "aim" for the near edge of the airfield at this point. Bank or drop the nose momentarily as needed to maintain sight of your targeted touchdown spot and maintain heading. Continue to slow the plane with a gradual descent maintaining a shallow glide slope. Final approach airspeed should be no more than 120 MPH at about 500 feet altitude and less than one mile out. Throttle up slightly as needed so as not to slow too much and stall. Lower the gear and extend the flaps. At 120-ish mph airspeed there will be little or no wind buffeting effect as they come down. Under no circumstances should you lower gear or extend flaps at airspeeds over 160MPH or they will be damaged! As the flaps and gear extend there will be much greater drag and you will need to add throttle in to order maintain speed and also slightly pull back on the stick. Keep the wings horizontally level and use gentle control inputs.

Very Important: In these final approach phases to touchdown, be very steady on the stick with small adjustments. I use the throttle up/down just as much as stick adjustments - maybe even more than the stick - to maintain glide slope. Watch the rate of descent indicator and at the final phases it must be very shallow.

Crossing the airfield threshold & touchdown: Airspeed should be roughly 90-100 mph as you cross the edge of the field at about 50-70 feet. Cut throttle and just above touchdown flare slightly so that the nose is slightly up. Touchdown speed should be around 80 mph. The Spitfire, with its relatively narrow undercarriage, has a tendency to wobble/bounce to left and right on the landing gear - trying to tip on either side. This tendency is reduced if the wings are perfectly level on the horizontal plane upon touchdown. Gentle control inputs are critical as well as appropriate use of rudder and/or aileron to keep BOTH main landing gears simultaneously in contact with the ground at the moment of touchdown. Even with the gentlest touch, there is a great tendency to bounce up and wobble, potentially burying the wingtip and cart wheel into the ground.

As soon as you touch down retract the flaps and pull straight back on the stick so the tail wheel settles. Tap on the brakes repeatedly. Do NOT brake too hard above 50 mph or you will flip her nose forward. Lean out the cockpit window to look for obstacles or make gentle S-curves to see what is ahead (don’t tip the plane over!) as you taxi. Come to a stop, close fuel cocks, and turn off the engine magnetos.

You are safely down on terra firma. Now - off to the pub!

SeaVee

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Last edited by SeaVee on Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:03 am, edited 14 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 9:23 pm 
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good stuff Seevee, :D

very clear and precise


can you please tell me if wind direction/strength will change any of these parameters?

cheers


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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 9:25 pm 
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BDG

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Thanks.

I haven't consciouly noticed enough wind effect to change the speeds other than perhaps slightly more or less control input and engine power. Honestly if its there at all I'm not even sure and may have made adjustments in response without realizing it.


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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 4:31 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 6:40 am
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Location: Suffolk UK
Thanks SeaVee,

This post comes at just the right time for me as I'm just getting back into BOB2 after a long break and I've been having severe problems with getting the landings sorted. A bad landing ruins the whole mission, especially as I like to fly the complete mission from start to finish.

A couple of further questions though if you don't mind:

1. The speeds you mention - are they from the info bar or the ASI?

2. Likewise for your alt - info bar or altimeter? (I wonder if any sim will ever give us a truly realistic altimeter so that QFE/QNH have to be used. I like the way that airfield elevation has to be taken into account with BoB but the additional factors would be a great addition to the immersion factor for me personally)

3. You mention 20-25% power - how do you guage this? Do you just look at the throttle and note that its about a 1/4 of the way forward. I prefer to try to relate power settings to my boost and rpm guages.

As you can probably see from my questions I like to fly as realistically as possible using the instruments rather than the info bar if I can. Unfortunatley, the apparent discrepencies between actual (sim) speed/height/heading and the indications given by the ASI/Altimeter/compass detract from an otherwise very immersive environment.

Looking forward to 2.04 and the future develeopment of this great sim.

WB.

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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 6:57 am 
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BDG

Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 11:56 am
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Location: Miami, FL
WhiskeyBravo wrote:

1. The speeds you mention - are they from the info bar or the ASI?

2. Likewise for your alt - info bar or altimeter?

3. You mention 20-25% power - how do you guage this? Do you just look at the throttle and note that its about a 1/4 of the way forward. I prefer to try to relate power settings to my boost and rpm guages.

.....Unfortunatley, the apparent discrepencies between actual (sim) speed/height/heading and the indications given by the ASI/Altimeter/compass detract from an otherwise very immersive environment.



I too like it to be as realistic as possible. I use the instrument gauges primarily. Actually for # 3 I've mostly looked down at the throttle and ocassionally re-checked using the info line. I'm glad you reminded me of the boost and RPM gauges. I've not used those as much, especially the boost gauge. Those are more realistic than the infoline so I probably won't need to "cheat" as much. I'm now going to start using those alot as well and hopefully get weaned off of ever having to use the infoline.

Concernign the gauge accuracy issues: Make sure you do the various gauge improvement mods from Stickman/Smokin256 and the corresponding bdg.txt calibration changes. IMHO these are essential mods to the existing game. It is very likely those will be in 2.04 but you don't need to wait if you want to install them now.

They are now quite good visually and are now much more accurate. At first glance the mod install may seem a little cumbersome but they are actually quite simple. Its up to you but you don't even need to backup the original files that are being overwritten/removed with the mods - they are that good. You won't ever revert back to the old ones.

For more info on the various gauge mods see:

http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/v ... php?t=5068

and

http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/v ... php?t=4380

This second one is a bit long but very comrpehensive and includes links and very detailed instructions.

BTW, my landing methods again are what I have worked out that work well for me (I've reached a point where I can score "a good landing" or "spot on" the majority of the time now). These are not any kind of official instruction and are not cast in stone. Certainly they are not the only way to get down and maybe not even the best way. The exact speeds and altitudes can have some degree of variability but not by a large amount I expect. I guess what I was trying to impart was the general concepts rather than absolute strict adherence to those exact values.


Other than as a passenger in a few small planes and regular commercial jets, I have never flown a "real plane" and probably will never have the time of money to. In the meantime, PC flight sims, especially this one are a reasonable fix. :)
Good flying.


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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 8:42 pm 
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BDG
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Excellent SeaVee ! :)

Only thing I could add would be possibly posting a cam file to illustrate


Redband


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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 9:19 pm 
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BDG

Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 11:56 am
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Location: Miami, FL
Cam file? Is this the files name of saved videos of missions? Didn't know you could post these, I thought it would be a huge video file...

I have saved a few landings in the replay feature but I have never figured out how to see it from the cockpit viewpoint. All I have is either the external plane view or no cokpit at all.

I have the free version FRAPS but have never used it in this game either.

How do I post these?


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 2:41 am 
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BDG
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Seavee,

These are the saved video files from BOB. Buddye just uploaded on
this thread
http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/v ... 1203#41203
it was only 510 KB. You should be able to use the same site you used for those machine gun files you had set up.
In the videos you can only set it to external or no cockpit views. You can also use your ALT V and rove to the ground and watch your AC land.

Redband


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 7:23 am 
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BDG

Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 11:56 am
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Location: Miami, FL
Thanks redband_151,

I'll link a .cam file tonight. Too bad there is no way to have in-cockpit views so you can see the instruments with .cam files. But between the no-cockpit view and the external plane views it gives a decent perspective of glide slope angle and the all important slight flare before TD.

Later when I have time I'll get the full version of FRAPS and record a video including in-cockpit and external views - probably won't be able to get to it for at least a month though.

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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 7:56 am 
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BDG
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Location: Reading, UK
SeaVee wrote:
Thanks redband_151,

I'll link a .cam file tonight. Too bad there is no way to have in-cockpit views so you can see the instruments with .cam files. But between the no-cockpit view and the external plane views it gives a decent perspective of glide slope angle and the all important slight flare before TD.

Later when I have time I'll get the full version of FRAPS and record a video including in-cockpit and external views - probably won't be able to get to it for at least a month though.


SeaVee,

You could use fraps (which works excellently with BOB2 btw) and then compress it using virtualdub (which is free) http://www.virtualdub.org/ I tend to use DivX codecs in virtualdub for video file compression. I have made a couple of short movies & popped them on DVD to anoy my family / friends :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 7:18 pm 
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BDG

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Location: Miami, FL
OK. Below is a link to a .cam file of one of my landings at Manston Airfield.

Download it, rename the downloaded file Manston Landing and then put it in the VIDEO folder within BoBII. Then launch BoBII, select REPLAY and select the file. The reason you have to rename it is because my file hosting site adds a bunch of numbers in front of the downloaded file name - I don't know why or how to change that so just rename it after download.

LINK to the landing .cam file.

Note: I am running with Buddye's latest test release MLABELS7. I am not sure if you are on version 2.03, Weather9 or one of the other prior test releases if the .cam file replay will work.

If you need MLABELS7 it can be found HERE

The downloaded file is a .RAR file type. Its a compression format. If you don't have winrar - a free program to decompress and extract .rar files - google search "winrar" and D/L it free. Its a small file. The two files extracted with the MLABESL7 download go in the main BoBII folder and replace the existing ones. FIRST BACKUP the two existing files in case you want to go back to version 2.03 (I doubt you will want to but do it anyway).

That test release has two known issues that are being worked for 2.04 patch release.

Issue#1 slow down for the first 10-15 seconds. Use the following workaround until 2.04 patch release:

Go to your BOB install directory, open BDG.TXT and find the line

SMOOTHEN_FRAMEREATE_MODE=SMOOTHEN

and change it to

SMOOTHEN_FRAMERATE_MODE=NONE

Issue#2 the RAF gunsight. Use the following temporary workaround until 2.04.

http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/v ... &start=900

Smokin256 has created a modified RAF gunsite graticule for use with the test .exe. It overcomes the immediate problem until the full 2.04 patch is out.
http://home1.gte.net/res0rrxk/Files/RAFsight.zip

The RAF sight goes in your COCKPM16 folder. Back up the original first.


I just got the full version of Fraps so I can film any aspect of a flight including the in-cockpit view and it will capture all the sounds as well. After we finish the 2.04 manual project I'll do a DIVX version of one of these landings with cockpit and external views.


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 9:50 pm 
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BDG
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Seavee,

Nice cam :) You really come in at a much steeper angle than I do, yet your are still able set it down with a lot less bouncing than myself.


Redband


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 11:45 pm 
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BDG

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Location: Miami, FL
The steep angle is not the way it is always. Actually now that I reviewed it again in that landing it was a fair bit steeper than it usually is. I'll record a couple more and post them. No one landing for me is exactly the same but most are similar.

In my many, many, many, many (did I say it was many?) crash landings until I got landing down pretty good, aside from all the speed issues I also practiced "the flare" alot and getting really close to the ground without actually touching down. I am now able to flare it at just the right moment, stay right off the ground (I guess about 5 ft or so) and then as I cut the throttle she settles down pretty gently with not too much bounce. Wings level on the horizontal plane is key.

I am using Stickman's Less Spit Bounce mod just as he changed it, no more.

It took about 25 crashes before I finally got the hang of it. I still crash sometimes but its not nearly as often. When I do crash I always recognize whats going wrong a few moments before the crash but by then its usually too late to correct before KABOOM.

My takeoffs still need ALOT of work as I am still very hamfisted on the rudder and they are not smooth at all. Thats alot more practice and then maybe another tutorial if I get really good at it.

EDIT: Here is another .cam file LINK from a few minutes ago. Landing at Debden, afternoon, sunny. A little wobbly just after touchdown (I should have had wings more horizontally level just before the flare) but got down without too much bounce. Tower still called it "a good landing". If they only knew I just drank a beer :)

D/L the file and rename it. Same installation instructions as for the other landing link above.


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 4:46 am 
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Thanks for all the info SeaVee, as a result of this tutorial my landings improved dramatically although my initial approach differs somewhat from yours. I prefer to make a fast overflight of the runway, a 'buzz' is you like, then pull up and round in a hard break turn to bleed off speed. Gear and flaps at the appropriate time downwind and then a continuous turn onto finals before levelling the wings just over the boundary fence and then flaring for touch down. I can make a successful landing 9 out of 10 times now. :D

It was interesting to read that you have problems with takeoffs still. I've cracked those recently too - just holding back on the stick makes a huge difference. Interestiingly, I use neutral rudder trim and don't have problems whereas if I were to apply the 'book' settings of full right rudder trim I get all sorts of wonderings on takeoff. Go figure!

Changing the subject slightly, I too use Stickmans bounce mod but I'm using the weather9 exe which I thought was the lastest build. You mention the MLABELS7 release, but reading the other threads hereabouts I thought the 2 were one and the same - I've probably just misunderstood so can you just clarify for me the differences between the 2 and which is the latest build?

Thanks again for the info.

WB.

PS When watching the cam files I get no engine sound and the aircraft sinks about 3 feet into the ground when landing - is this just one of the many 'features' of the playback system?

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 5:45 am 
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BDG

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[edited]


Last edited by ick53993 on Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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